Confessions of a Litigious Mind

The random, irrelevant musings of a law school graduate.

Wednesday, April 26, 2006

2 mins for rebuttal

i recently read this post, and as someone who's had a share of his family die from smoking, i think some of the harsh language in the post requires rebuttal.

first, your inner monologue is illogical. there's a huge difference between smoking and drinking, not just health wise. if lots of people in a bar are smoking, then everyone there is smoking. you can't pick and choose which air you breathe. however, someone can go to the bar for just one or two drinks, or just to go with friends and not drink at all (ever heard of designated drivers?). by being at a bar you are not forced to have alcohol, but if people are permitted to smoke, you are also forced to smoke. of course, this all changes if it's outside at a bar or in an open area.

also, i dont see why people who smoke are society's "underclass" just because people who choose to be healthier in that respect don't want to inhale second hand smoke. dont you find it ironic when phillip morris runs ads warning against the risks of smoking? limiting your "right to smoke" does not make you an underclass if your "right" is interfering with others' constitutional right to life. sorry.

i should note that i am not a smoker, but i do have friends who smoke. and i dont give them shit for it, cuz hey, they can do what they want. and i do go to bars where people smoke, and i know that it's my choice when i do. i am in no way advocating that people should not be allowed to smoke. it's a lifestyle choice, just like drinking coffee or being gay (haha kidding!). i just take issue when smokers complain about how oppressed they are.

as someone who has also seen the negative effects of smoking, i can't in good conscience let such naive comments slide. and since you refuse to allow comments, i cannot discretely answer in that manner. smoking in an indoor bar cannot be compared to drinking in an indoor bar. and if not being able to do one thing you want makes you an underclass, then everyone's in some sort of underclass.

13 Comments:

At 4/26/2006 4:19 PM, Blogger Elle Woods said...

I only used to bar example since I think it's kinda lame, but I can understand it. Especially given that banning smoking in bars if more for the workers. Lucky for me I don't live in state that has banned smoking in bars-yet. When I was a non-smoker I didn't like it either, I still sit in non-smoking in restaurants-mainly out of respect for my non-smoking friends.

What I can't understand is being told where I can and can't smoke outside when where I stand is not even in anyones way to get to the building. The whole post was directed at pointing out how ridiculous law students are, to go posting signs and drawing chalk lines not even in the right place.

I refer to smokers as an underclass because it's very popular to pick on smokers in so many ways it's unbelieveable. Strangers have no problem stopping and telling me it's going to kill me-thanks, I know. Yet people can sit and eat a triple whopper with extra mayo and a biggie fry and nobody says anything to them. It's a double standard constantly imposed on smokers.

By the way, Holmes, I'd love to see a state ban tobacco and make up the tax base somewhere else. Everyone would have a fit when the taxes on everything else went up to fund schools (I believe in my state cigarettes taxes go to schools). Not to mention all the politicians dirty campaign money.

 
At 4/26/2006 4:37 PM, Blogger josh said...

i agree that banning outdoor smoking is taking it too far. gotta draw the line somewhere.

i also didnt realize from your post it was law students making signs and drawing with the chalk. law students are ridiculous.

i dont go up to smokers and tell them it will kill them. i'd love to go up to fat people in a fast food restaurant and tell them the same. maybe next time.

 
At 4/26/2006 5:17 PM, Blogger d$ said...

i can sympathize with the line draw-ers. on rainy days smokers congregate around the covered entrance ways to the academic building i spend all my time in. Whenever the door at that entrance gets opened all that smokey air gets sucked right into the building. you'd think this wouldnt be a big deal - a little smoke, ok whatever, it'll dissipate - but the smoke also has a way of wafting down a stair well and into my lab. so even though i'm not smoking, i'm not even walking by people who are smoking, yet i have to sit in a room that reeks of cigarette smoke. and aside from annoying its just outright trashy to have an academic building smelling like that.

 
At 4/26/2006 5:32 PM, Blogger josh said...

i agree. i think it's ridiculous that law students are drawing these lines. the administration ought to. besides, that just seems like the wrong way to go about it to me. and who is going to listen? they'll listen about as well as i do to all the westlaw training emails i get.

we have signs outside our building telling smokers where to smoke. if it's raining, sorry, you're the one choosing to stand outside. even tom cruise doesn't go outside on rainy days looking for new placenta. he just waits indoors for katie to drop one.

while i think smokers should be allowed to smoke outdoors, that doesn't mean right by the doors where it can be sucked inside. i guess i didnt mention that in my above comment because its not a problem in our building.

on a completely unrelated note, i stand by my above random comment that law students are ridiculous.

 
At 4/26/2006 5:37 PM, Blogger Elle Woods said...

Dominique-I guess my thing is there is a completely enclosed walkway, if it really bothers them, they can go that way-but rather then them talking 25 more steps it's easier to pick on smokers. There are also another set of doors so smoke doesn't get into the building, even when there are inconsiderate 1L smokers who stand close.

Holmes-Dirty campaign money, you know money used to keep cigarettes available for all the people like me to smoke. You say smokers aren't an underclass in one breath and then you say that I choose to smoke and suffer the social consequences. Which one is it?

Smokers without health care might be subsidized for their illnesses, but you'll get to collect more money from social security since we'll all die sooner so it evens out in the end.

Nobody tells you to stop being a dick, and that is just as likely to create high blood pressure as my 3 cigarettes a day.

Everyone wants to live in a capitalist and free society and yet when people do things they don't like they want to stop it. I don't complain when morons reproduce 5 children and raise them to hate gays, so why not just let me have my cigarette and abortions in peace?

Yes, I do know bring abortion into this was dumb, it's a joke people. Calm down.

 
At 4/26/2006 7:03 PM, Blogger sadielady said...

I know this isn't the same thing, but - a few years ago some people in a building where I worked decided to host a bar-b-que fundraising event for a charity they were involved in. They set up a big outdoor grill, and grilled hamburgers and hot dogs and chicken breasts, and they had sides and stuff, and they sold lunch plates for $5, all the money made that day to go to the charity. Funny thing is, they set up their grill a little too close to the doors to the building. And even though the building has a set of double doors to get all the way inside, the smoke from the grill found its way inside the building, and set off the smoke alarm. Everyone had to leave what they were working on and go outside, and the fire truck came, it took forever before they cleared us to go back in. Good news for the charity, though: all those people who had to leave the building b/c of the smoke alarm were overwhelmed by the smell of the food they were cooking, and lunch plate sales went way up for about an hour.

I'm enjoying reading this discussion in the comments, btw. A debate: cool.

 
At 4/26/2006 7:05 PM, Blogger sadielady said...

I guess my point of the little story above was, yes, the smoke does get inside the building if the source of the smoke is too close to the doors. (And again, I know it's different - the grill was smoking like a motherfucker.)

 
At 4/26/2006 7:31 PM, Blogger josh said...

ummm, we dont all want a capitalist and free society. i'm a commie. haha just kidding. but seriously, can we abolish the class system already?

 
At 4/26/2006 8:12 PM, Blogger d$ said...

maybe we could make up the loss of revenue from the cigarette tax by saving money on environmental clean up of all the cigarette butts that get thrown on the ground.

 
At 4/26/2006 8:22 PM, Blogger josh said...

how about gambling? anyone want to bet on the red sox game tonight?

 
At 4/27/2006 12:43 AM, Blogger Elle Woods said...

I think that's evil, I'm always up front with people about the smoking, since even though I smoke very little I'm not really willing to quit right now. I had a guy do that to me before I was a smoker...Long story short, I'm a smoker now too.

 
At 4/27/2006 5:13 PM, Blogger JLee said...

snap

 
At 4/27/2006 11:35 PM, Blogger law monkey said...

dicta, i need a motivational friday. stupid exams. they make me sleepy and apathetic.


shouldn't it be the other way around?

also, i kind of just came into this convo, but holmes, you raised all of the same points that i was going to raise. props.

 

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