Confessions of a Litigious Mind

The random, irrelevant musings of a law school graduate.

Tuesday, October 31, 2006

time to stir the waters a bit

i dont mean to come off as racist, or worse yet a republican, but i support proposition 2.

my problem is not with the "leveling of the playing field." in fact, i completely support that. but i think affirmative action cases need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. i understand that some social and economic factors place some minority students at a disadvantageous starting place, but of course affirmative action doesn't consider whites in the same position. furthermore, there's no reason that someone who is a child of a doctor, lawyer, or other professional, or who is not coming from a "hard" background who has had opportunity should get precedence over a more qualified student simply because of race. socioeconomic concerns should factor into admissions decisions, but race alone should not.

the main argument for affirmative action often stems from a poor economic upbringing. but proposition 2 doesn't say anything about economic considerations, but rather just race. i think those from a poor background should be given some extra consideration to level the playing field for them. they are the ones at a disadvantage. inner city schools suck. students dont always get the attention they deserve, and aren't recognized. true, may of these students are often not white, but their race isn't why they are at a disadvantage; it's their location, their socioeconomic status.

i think something is amiss when the son of a black doctor gets preference over a poor student whose parents didnt go to college simply because of race. if there are other factors involved, ok. but race should not be the be all and end all. i talked with dominique a bit and she brought up another good point. affirmative action hurts poor minorities too. the wealthier/better off minority students will look better on paper than their poorer counterparts because they've had more opportunities and, because they are minorities, will take spots away from those poorer minority students. these students have an advantage as they're vying against the people affirmative action is really trying to benefit.

i'm not denying that there's a definite disproportionality at many colleges and universities. but blanket stereotyping is never good. and to say that someone deserves something based on their race is just that.

i also like how the article casually mentions that the white woman they were interviewing was shopping at kohl's. what a cracker store.

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and now for something completely different to lighten the mood: i dont believe in karma, but stuff like this makes me want to.

12 Comments:

At 10/31/2006 6:09 PM, Blogger Butterflyfish said...

First the ADD post, now this. Dicta, I'm kind of impressed.

 
At 10/31/2006 7:07 PM, Blogger josh said...

what can i say, i'm an impressive guy. just ask those who know me in person.

 
At 10/31/2006 11:01 PM, Blogger d$ said...

i have a hypothetical:
a middle class family adopts three children, one child is asian, one is african-american and one is white. So the three children are raised in the same house, same town, attended the same schools and in theory have had all the same opportunities and experiences. Are the two minority children entitled to more scholarships, job opportunities, etc?

 
At 11/01/2006 1:01 PM, Blogger Damon said...

Dominique your minority examples represent what 1% of the cases? Race generally correlates well with opporunity so they tried to help it with affirmitive action. As you point out it doesn't always work, and if it's poor students that are supposed to be helped, why not just help poor students? With divorces, single parents, non married couples and other life arrangements, judging economic background isn't so simple either. Not only that, but a poor white student has more opportunity than a poor minority student because of the racism and stearotypes of the students' teachers, peers, employers and others.

Anyway, maybe you are pleased to know that in Burlington, the schools are working on socioeconomic intergration to equalize opportunity and performance, and although it will involve people of different ethnicity and background, there has been no mention of that in the proposals.

 
At 11/01/2006 3:45 PM, Blogger josh said...

of course judging economic background isn't simple, but the best plan always isnt (despite what ockham's razor may say). but the point is, to get to some sort of "equality" the underprivileged should be brought up, all the way up. the "privileged" class should not be brought down. just because there are general trends showing minorities have fewer opportunities, employing some sort of "reverse racism" to cure this seems somewhat hypocritical. of course, advocates would never call it that because often they place "victims" on a pedestal above criticism purely by virtue of their being unfortunate.

is it cool to let a poor man steal to feed his family? some would say yes, despite the fact stealing is illegal. others would claim there's another way. shit, in this country he can just go on welfare.

 
At 11/01/2006 6:05 PM, Blogger d$ said...

I in no way said that the situation I suggested was a common place occurance. Hypotheticals rarely are.

Affirmative action presupposes that racism and stearotypes of the students' teachers, peers, employers and others is still an active force in our society. I think it's out dated and the type of racism that would prevent people from getting jobs, into school etc. is a lot less prevalent than in the era (early 1960's) in which affirmative action was developed.

I think it would be more beneficial to have affirmative action include inidviduals from known low income areas or certain socioeconomic classes, rather than basing it on racial affinity alone.

Just assuming that low income, poor schools and fewer opportunities correlate with minorities is racist and insulting in itself, even if it's intented to help people.

 
At 11/02/2006 10:34 AM, Blogger Mel Woods said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11/02/2006 10:54 AM, Blogger Mel Woods said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11/02/2006 1:51 PM, Blogger josh said...

i think one distinction we have to make is whether we want admissions to be "diverse" (based on whatever we think diverse means - race, gender, background, location, etc etc) or "fair." two people with opposite views on what the admissions process should accomplish could easily come out on different sides of this debate.

my argument attempted to take a "fairness" route, arguing that grades and test scores should be weighed along with things like background and socioeconomic status. this argument ignores types of diversity such as "oh wouldn't it be nice if johnny was exposed to all kinds of different people at school." mainly because i dont care about that...at least not for admissions requirements. i think it's wonderful when schools are very diverse, but i dont think diversity should be an end for admissions selections committees.

admission to college is not a right. you have to earn it. of course, there is a sliding scale based upon opportunities, wealth, and other factors that must be examined to determine if one is qualified. but the color of one's skin alone should not be determinative. race does not earn one a spot in college. that's why it is optional on many applications, because they "dont discriminate on the basis of race,..." etc.

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i also want to thank dominique, damon, and mel woods for engaging in some sort of discussion. it's nice to know ALL my readers arent pussies afraid to engage in real discussion and put their opinions about sensitive subjects out there (assuming they're even capable of forming any). for all the complaints/accusations of bitterness i've gotten from rants, it's surprising that when i write non-rant posts people still dont acknowledge it.

i'm not really surprised or offended that some of my friends from home havent responded because we know each other well and we've discussed issues like this in the past.

at first i was surprised by the lack of law student response, but then i remembered that law students are generally weak individuals who are afraid to express any controversial opinions, or anything that might be seen as dissenting.

i love my friends from home, but the other bloggers are just plain disappointing as a whole. this is probably why they're online, and also why you dont meet people from online.

end rant.

 
At 11/02/2006 1:51 PM, Blogger d$ said...

no it doesn't. my point was that basing affirmative action soley on race hurts underprivaledged minorities. which is clear from the situation you described.

 
At 11/02/2006 10:46 PM, Blogger Mel Woods said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11/03/2006 11:20 AM, Blogger Butterflyfish said...

Now that I am temporarily relieved of memo hell...
begin rant/

I think there is a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. I think getting a college education is closer to "outcome" and therefore agree with socioeconomic diversity over skin color diversity. But I think that debate is putting the cart before the horse...

What bothers me about education in this country is that equality of opportunity doesn't exist. Not really. Between all of the bullshit awareness programs teachers are forced to implement and all the 'feel good' policies (don't give Johnny a D in red pen because he'll feel bad about himself) and lack of discipline and parental accountability, some schools just plain suck. And they suck more where people don't have options/can't afford private school.
Are vouchers/lotteries/private funding the answer? I don't know, but I don't see the debate being engaged in any meaningful way because of the power of the teachers unions and others who are deeply motivated to keep the status quo.

/end rant

 

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